"Philosophy stands in the same relation to the study of the…

The world would be a better place if he never existed

Marxism stands in the same relation to the study of the actual world as masturbation to sexual love.

No understanding of economics.
No understanding of ethics.
No understanding of history.
No understanding of human nature.

Just a victimhood circle jerk.

marxism was reacrion to exploitative poat feudalist society where 12 year olds worked 16 hrs a day in filth.

I understand why it gained traction

Russia where it started out was even worse than western europe.

the more i read and observe reality the more I think we need a capitalist/socialist hybrid system, cuz both of these on their own are failing.

Id love to see all the champaign capitalists cheering for capitalism after their 16 hr shift at the sweatshop

It is easy to understand.

Marxism masterfully plays the ego:

'Everything you don't like about your life us someone else's fault. You should rule them!'

Evil masquerades as good.
It has to. Most people are good.

Where in reality do you see a 'capitalist system'?

again

post feudalist society where the now "free" peasants dont own shit and have to work in exploitation by the same rich class as before.

Its not like u could be like Well fuck you sir! I will start my own multinational!

I dont think people are inherently good. Thats why both systems are fucked.

If people aren't good maybe any system that gives people power over others and the privilege to violate their individual rights is a very bad idea?

Something to ponder.

i agree

but thats always been the case in any society bigger than like a tiny village

People are neither good or bad.
Or, to be more precise: People are both good and bad.

Good & bad are no absolute concepts. I depends on circumstances and perspectives how people act or are perceived.

"Existence determines consciousness."
-- Karl Marx

Everything has always been some way before it changed.

Just because we always lived without masks (except maybe the Kkk and antifa) doesn't mean it can't change, as 2020 has shown.

But if you want evil people to have power over you, that's fine with me.

show me a place where evil people dont have control over you

Evil is subjective?
How convenient...

Of course that's not the case.

Evil is quite objective.

To violate individual rights (based on the concept of self ownership) is evil.

But I understand why collectivists need to pretend otherwise ;)

im still chewing thru this badboy

I suppose you have never spoken to an actual Marxist, and it's obvious that you have never read Marx...

So, what is your judgement based on?
Some memes on the internet?

I mean, seriously. Where does your "knowledge" on Marxism come from?

The way things are is no indicator of how they will be.

If it were, there would be no life, no change, no history

But as I said:

If you are happy with increasing totalitarianism, that's fine with me.

I don't agree to being a slave myself.

And here we go.

Funny how you'd rather talk about me than the topic you started, isn't it?

Straight to personal attack in absence of arguments...

Imagine my surprise.

Maybe you want to explain why nothing Marx prophesied (marxusm is a religion after all) never transpired?

Oh my god! 😱 All alone? Kudos!

I have read it like 20 years ago, and a lot of things only made sense to me because I was in a group, reading Marx together. He's a quite hard author in general, I like Engels more actually : )

all alone 😱

Why don't you answer my questions? Too difficult?

And I'm not asking about you, I'm asking about your connection to the topic at hand. Because what you are talking about is not Marxism, but some phantasy of yours.

And what exactly did Marx prophesize?

Here's an idea:

Shall we start with what we agree on and then see how far we can go together, where we depart and why?

Here's a starting point:

Do you agree that every grown up is the owner of their body? And if they aren't, they are slaves?

Does anyone know of any studies done on the personalities and behaviors of people who are self described as marxists? I would love to know more about the demographic of people who are able to embrace all that cognitive dissonance

check out prof richard wolff

he teaches economics at 3 unis i think.

ad homs about cognitive disonance is lame

Willhem Reich has a lot to say about the psychological problems that lead to totalitarianism.

The mass psycology of fascism
And
Listen, little man!

Come to mind.

In general an unfinished sexual development arrested in the anal phase is a big one.

I am sorry but communism didn't start in Russia. Marx wrote these are phases in human history that go in order. Russia was a feudal monarchy. Marx wrote that communism would grow from the ruins of the most capitalist society by capitalism destroying itself

Marx claimed capitalism would soon collapse and socialism would take over.

Of course that never happened because any attempt ended in mass murder or starvation and only a somewhat free market can sustain it.

I offered you a new start in another reply.

Its not lame when people defending an ideology/philosophy are constantly changing and avoiding questions and trying to assassinate character in place of substance. You’re comment even proves it. It’s painfully accurate.

it was the first serious national effort at marxism/communism

I actually agree with this. It’s happening right now. That doesn’t mean communism/socialism is the correct response. Especially in modern times when we’ve been through this before. It implies something much deeper about human nature.

This is from the Acts of the Apostles 2:40 from the New Testament. In Marx's defense, he wasn't born for another 1800 years 😜
https://twetch.app/t/f25039dfd0cf1388e8c590c25950e7f18a53c71bfd723bc6c8f34cc7bc80a636

The Weren’t forced to by their own government. They were all apart of the same Church. They were charitable to each other, of the same Faith, willingly. Christians call this Charity. Communists call this a right and steal it from you. BIG difference...

Sure. We are seeing another attempt at making the world socialist.

But not because capitalism failed as Marx predicted, but because it was replaced by more and more government control and a central banking system as described in the communist manifesto...

so it has failed then

No. the failure isn't capitalism, the failure is a direct result of socialism creeping in.

How could capitalism fail?

It only means that you are free and can do with your body and property as you wish.

That famous "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!" was actually part of a critique.

In the "Gotha Programme" the SDAP wrote, that "the proceeds of labor belong undiminished with equal right to all members of society."
1/3

Exactly.

If socialists would just come together, share, build, do whatever they want, everything would be fine.

But as the radical statists they are this never even comes to their mind.

Instead they want to 'share' other people's property by force.

2/3 and Marx criticises that phrase. He explains that such a demand is meaningless and impossible. And he goes quite into detail.

Only when the productive forces are so developed that "labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want", he

3/3 says, when productivity is so high that we live in total abundance – "only then can society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!"

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htm

Ready when you are.

By starting with what we agree on this will be much more productive, don't you agree?

At the age of 25 Marx wrote Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844. His book, 170 years later is still read. I wish anything I say would be remembered, let alone a book I wrote at the age of 25. Saying Marx has no understanding of history is wrong.

Funny thing, Carl Marx wasn’t an economist. 😂

Making predictions about how history will play out and failing completely is whag I call no understanding of history

Everything turned out differently than Marx thought which is why marxists started to destroy society in order to make it finally come true

If you want to read someone who has an understanding of history read Oswald Spenglers Decline of the west.

Hi @22825! Great post. The quote was from the Bible acts 2:40. I added Marx's image as a joke. Great breakdown. Alot of people try to escribe a whole system of ethics based on that quote.

Thank you for the appreciation!

I must admit that I too have problems with a lot of "Marxists", especially those in the West. They are too ideological, more cult than analysis.

And most of those "Marxists" have no interest in economy...
Which is a shame!

Translation: Only once capitalism has produced enough abundance will the Marxist be able to decide whos needs and abilities are worthy.

spoiler: When capitalism reaches that point, it will already have solved the problem. Bitcoin BSV will take us there.