Leo ·
@metamitya The reason I ask about Kuchma is it helps understand the political backdrop of Ukrainian fervent opposition to politicians associated with and supporting Russia. Kutchma was implicated in the murder of a journalist - one that was investigating corrupt Ukraine officials - for the purpose of silencing him.
Can you imagine how much public backlash there would be for tapes offering pretty compelling evidence (at least to the public) that a US president ordered the killing of a journalist investigating his corruption?
This sparked significant protests. Ukraine authorities ofcourse responded really harshly (and predictably blamed foreign influence)
Kuchma went on to support Yanukovich who was clearly the Putin backed candidate as referenced above (Kremlin political advisors in his campaign for eg.)
Yanukovich was then involved in the Orange revolution due to evidence of Russian backed election interference. With many, continued examples of Russian hard power interference (including the alleged poisoning of the pro-European candidate)
So basically - anybody in Ukraine with the slightest bit of traditional Western ideology inclination where they believed in limiting Government corruption - its hard to imagine how infuriated they would be at Kuchma and Yanukovich and their legacy of corruption and Russian interference.
And ultimately, by 2014 - a very large portion of the Ukrainian population WAS western ideologically inclined. And GOOD. And all the better if it was incubated or supported by American NGOs...
So when the democratically elected Yanukovich started to cave to further Russian pressure and interference, don't tell me the Maidan protests that erupted weren't justified given the very recent legacy of Yanukovich and his predecessor:
- Killing an anti corruption journalist
- Violently stamping out protests
- The popularly held belief that Russia tried to assassinate Yanukovich's rival in the presidential campaign
- Proven election fraud by the Putin backed candidate
- im sure im missing stuff
Given how close you were to justifying revolution in the face of Trumps fraud accusations, how could you possibly say "Yanukovich was democratically elected, they shouldnt have tried tried to push him out - they started the civil war"
Replies
metamitya ·
huh?
metamitya ·
"justifying revolution" dont know what youre talking about
Leo ·
I think I recall conversations where you said that it might be necessary to violently resist the Biden presidency if courts didnt give Trump's fraud claims a fair hearing. But let me formulate the point another way with a hypothetical - Imagine this alternate timeline:
Imagine if Obama was caught on tape ordering the silencing of a journalist investigating his corruption. Then that journalist wound up dead. But Obama couldnt be prosecuted but you believed it was true.
Then imagine Trump and Biden ran after Obama. And Biden was clearly supported and advised by agents of the deep state (unelected officials that could influence American politics).
Then imagine there was an attempted assassination of Trump during this campaign and you genuinely believed it was Biden and the deep state.
Then imagine Biden won - but proof came out that there was fraud and the supreme court forced another election. This time Trump won.
Then, after Trump's 4 years, due to unmistakable interference of deep state political influence through propaganda money, Biden won. Then during his presidency - Biden started making laws that would empower the deep state and make it easier for them to interfere in further elections and politics.
Could you imagine it being appropriate to have massive protests that demanded the remove of Biden?
Leo ·
@metamitya what do you think?
metamitya ·
I think youre putting words in my mouth
Leo ·
Jeezus will you learn to read the whole thing lolol