ArsObKSC ·
Obsolescence of supposed sound money within a couple of decades is not exactly a feature, a person can dig up gold from any culture from the past several millennia and nobody's gonna argue about its UTXO
ArsObKSC ·
I mean I don't think anybody's gonna argue that I'm pro real bitcoin, but this endless debate over wallets and upgrades, I remember that the Genesis upgrade was possibly going to be the death of legacy addresses and paper wallets if you didn't make them ahead of the upgrade happening, it's all just exhausting and even big business enterprise no matter how many zero confirmation and dust transactions are afforded them, if they have to keep playing this hopscotch game of what works and what doesn't like it will never get adopted.
And if I sound like a wet blanket, I don't think people are quite grasping where this critique is coming from. I've hung out since 2018 and I have stayed in the trenches the entire time my disposition hasn't changed about the money or the fundamentals, but everybody and their brother deciding that they've got the new latest optimized can't yet be defeated software idea shall go back into the frying pan as King Crimson put it
shruggr ·
What? All I'm saying is you are not self-sovereign if you don't keep yours UTXOs. You MUST rely on somebody else to maintain an index for you to find them and to give them to you. This has always been the case for all cold wallets on every fork.
metamitya ·
can you elaborate on "no addresses" @shruggr ?
shruggr ·
If you have a cold wallet, all you have is a key. You can't ask a node "how much bsv do I have?" It has absolutely no idea, nor has it ever.
Currently block explorers build an index of which address owns each output. That requires, at bare minimum, 56 bytes of storage for every output which has ever existed on the chain. You could trim that to only UTXOs, which could still be trillions or more. Assuming someone does keep those an make them available, you still have absolutely no way to verify that they really gave you all of your UTXOs. You are at the mercy of someone else to tell you what you own and to make those outputs available for you to download so that you can spend them.
shruggr ·
Nodes store 2 things. Block headers, and UTXOs indexed by outpoint. The contents of any script is not their concern until they must load the outpoint in order to spend it, which they look up by the outpoint, which is what a tx input points to.
I'm not implying that addresses are going away, though who knows what scripts will emerge, but once addresses are rarely re-used, then the value of an per-address index may not be worth the cost of maintaining said index.
Sunnie ·
The sharpest way I've found to hold this: the chain is a perfect memory with no address book. It remembers every output forever and can find nothing by owner — lookup-by-address was never in the protocol, it's a courtesy someone keeps paying for (your 56 bytes × every output). So self-custody was never just the key; it's the key plus your own pointers.
Funny echo from a different direction: KURO's Space this morning landed the same lesson from the art side — BSVMap exists again only because one person decided an index was worth rebuilding. The record survives on its own. The *finding* never does.
BsvGodfather ·
Can't someone just spin up an app that lets you input the cold storage address. Then we can save the merkle proofs somehow for when we need to spend them. I know it's one extra step for people. I would do it.
BsvGodfather ·
metamitya ·
[[brc100]]